From: apocalypsos	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:17 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

That was my first thought when I saw that, too. *sigh*

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:40 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Seriously, I would've thought it'd be obvious. Given the circumstances, I doubt she could've saved it... but she runs around finding a camera, and taking pictures, and then puts it down far from where she found it so it'll be "safe"? WTF?

	From: apocalypsos	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:46 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

And now there's one up there obviously messing with a nest of wild baby bunnies. I mean, it looks like it didn't do lasting damage, but seriously, better safe than sorry. How can these people have gardens and not know to leave wild baby animals alone?

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:18 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

It's the same one. She PICKED ONE UP, for god's sake. How utterly stupid can you be to pick up a wild animal which is old enough to scratch you?

	From: apocalypsos	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:20 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

*rolls eyes* I didn't even notice that. Jesus, what a dunce.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:27 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Seriously. My wild animal experiences are limited to these few incidents:

The time when a squirrel in Union Square ran across my shoulders while I was eating a gyro.
The times I've fed the squirrels in Union Square, and they took from my hand (let's face it, those aren't wild animals...)
The time I pet a sparrow (no, I don't know why)
The time my cat caught a squirrel, and I tried to save it, but it got away.
The many times I've caught semi-feral kittens to give them medical treatment, food, and eventual homes.

That's about it. And the only times that come CLOSE (not counting the sparrow thing) I took full responsibility for the babies.

	From: apocalypsos	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:33 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

I was raised in a rural area by my mother, the world's most rabid animal lover. I knew proper wild animal treatment before I could even spell the phrase.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:41 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

So did I.

And *I* grew up in a city!

I also knew not to Ever Ever Ever bother a working dog, long before I'd ever seen a guide dog of any sort (not that they're the only kind of working dog, but they're the ones I was told about).

	From: apocalypsos	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:47 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Oh, definitely. Yet another way some people bother me with animals ... every time I see someone who's not a small child trying to pet a working dog, I have to grit my teeth not to say anything.

Then again, dogs tend to spook me a little sometimes anyway. I once tried to pet my neighbor's dog and was reaching out my hand so it could get my scent first, and the stupid thing bit me. (Turned out it bit a lot and no one warned me.) I still have a long thin scar that goes halfway down my left index finger from where the bugger's teeth ripped my finger open. Urgh.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:49 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Well, guide dogs aren't on the job all the time. But yeah. I didn't even need to be told about avoiding working dogs because I'd already been told not to go near ANY dog without asking the owner first if it was okay. Basics, really.

	From: xmorningxrosex	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:03 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Not to mention washing it, which probably would have shocked it or drowned it or at least washed its scent off. O_o

I'm sure it's really unlikely, but I'm hoping the mama found it and got it all warm, safe, and dirty again.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:42 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

There've been a few times I've washed VERY young kittens. Not because I wanted to, but because the mother (Thunder, in this case, she's a bitch and a half) had abandoned them so completely that they were covered in their own shit. So I cleaned that part, and then prayed they weren't terribly harmed. I still don't think it was a good idea, but I had an excuse. Moles are SUPPOSED to be dirt-covered. They're MOLES.

	From: ladytalon	Date: August 15th, 2004 08:55 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Yeah, that's different, cause you basically had to be the surrogate mother. I've had to do that, too. Boy, is that not pleasant or what. ;)

I don't know much about moles, but I wonder if the dirt might act as insulation till their fur grows in.

	From: spitefairy	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:19 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

I commented to her, but forgot to mention that picking it up and taking it into the sunlight would also probably kill it due to shock.

People need to learn that when you see a baby animal you leave it alone, picking it up and moving it is only going to get the thing lost, and put human scent all over it.

People make me so mad, not everything in the world is meant to be scratch and sniff.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:39 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

It probably would've died anyway, she was turning the soil over its home... but she still should've left it there.

Unless, of course, she wanted to feed some hungry birds/ants/other things.

	From: mortaine	Date: August 15th, 2004 05:46 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

OK, I see nothing cute about that creature. I'm glad it died (and no, that's not me being heartless). Moles are PESTS; their eventual lifespan includes the ruin of most crops and domesticated plants before someone puts an end to them,usually with the more common poisons (which then leech into our soil and food crops).

I hope it fed something useful, like a snake or a hawk, though most predators can't even recognize infant rodents like moles and mice ("pinkies") because they don't move like food. Still, ending up as birdfood is the only really good outcome for that animal.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:06 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Moles are only pests because we insist on planting where they live! They could call us pests for killing them off. Sheesh, what ever happened to live and let live?

	From: mortaine	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:25 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

She was planting *something* there. Her alternatives upon realizing there was a common-variety mole in her yard were to: kill the mole, relocate it and all its relatives, or stop planting. One stops planting for endangered burrowing owls. One does not halt food production for a very prevalent mole species. Personally, I think her behavior was fine-- put it in the compost to die and decompose. It's her attitude that was naive.

"Live and let live" only applies when you're not in competition for food. At that point, it's "survival of the fittest" or "it's a dog-eat-dog world." Moles threaten food that even animal-loving vegetarians eat. Now, I won't say that humans should be taking as much land for food use as we do-- that's a given. But, having the population we do, we need the land, and we need it to not be infested by pests.

But I don't really expect most people to understand this stance. I'm an animal lover, but I greatly admire the efficiency of snakes and owls in keeping common agricultural pests from overrunning our food supplies.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:29 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Nah, I don't mind you thinking that moles are pests :)

Personally, I have a very practical view towards most animals. Too many years of kittens dying did that (we found out later that there's a genetic flaw in the cats of this neighborhood, making them extremely prone to sinus infections of all sorts, and general bad health. I still feel responsible, though, I know where it started, if that cat had been fixed, it wouldn't've happened). But I like playing devil's advocate.

	From: georgiapeachy	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:38 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/animal_facts/mole.html
"However, moles are also useful. They eat many pests which are harmful to plant roots, such as leatherjackets, wireworms and cutworms. Their tunnelling helps to aerate the soil which is important to waterlogged areas."

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/957/25244

Remember, even if you don't like them they are part of the food chain and serve a purpose. In moderation it's likely you won't even notice them. I've never had a problem, and I know there are plenty of them living near me. I hate it when I see people go beserk trying to get rid of them when I've never actualyl seen much ruined by them. Besides, they do have natural predators and us humans removed them, so it's really our fault. The best solution i've found is adopting a mean old outside cat to get some of them.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 06:40 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

The best solution i've found is adopting a mean old outside cat to get some of them.

Like that's not cruel and inhumane.

	From: georgiapeachy	Date: August 15th, 2004 08:57 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

Pounds regularly get semi-feral cats that have lived outside and have a lot of difficulty living indoors. Rosie, the semi-feral adult cat I adopted can not be kept indoors and I have to let her out. It so happens she kills moles, which is a hell of a lot better of a method to kill moles than the method our neighbors use: poison. Poison disrupts the food chain in drastic ways, which having a cat kill moles does not.

	From: conuly	Date: August 15th, 2004 09:06 pm (UTC)		(Clicky!)

I didn't say it was worse than poison. I was joking around, referencing the feline pastime of tormenting mice (and presumably other small mammals).

Frankly, I'm not going to waste my time crying over any animal I don't know personally. That's why I'm borrowing a cat to chase out this mouse we've got. If the mouse gets out, good, I'm happy for it. If it doesn't, too bad, no skin off of my back.